Haitian Vodou...The Real Deal

[Haitiluv]

Ok, let's talk about it. There are so many myths and misconceptions surrounding Haitian Voodoo. What exactly is it? Where does it come from? Do ppl really become possessed, sacrifice animals, put hexes on ppl, worship the devil, etc etc. I'll post the info in bits and pieces just so that it makes for easier reading. If anyone care to add info that I've overlooked you're more than welcome.

In case anyone wanted to know I got my info from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo

Haitian Vodou

Called Sèvis Gine or "African Service" in Haiti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti), a Creolized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole) form of Vodou is the primary culture and religion of the more than 8 million people of Haiti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti) and the Haitian diaspora. Haitian Vodou also has strong elements from the Ibo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibo) and Kongo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongo) peoples of Central Africa and the Yoruba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoruba) of Nigeria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigeria), though many different peoples or "nations" of Africa have representation in the liturgy of the Sèvis Gine, as do the TaÃ*no (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%EDno) Indians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian), the original peoples of the island now known as Hispaniola (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispaniola)

Haitian Creole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Creole) forms of Vodou exist in Haiti (where it is native), the Dominican Republic, parts of Cuba, the United States, and other places that Haitian immigrants dispersed to over the years. It is similar to other African-diasporic religions such as Lukumi or Regla de Ocha (also known as SanterÃ*a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santer%EDa)) in Cuba, Candomble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candomble) and Umbanda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbanda) in Brazil, all religions that evolved among descendants of transplanted Africans in the Americas.

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Voodoo&action=edit&section=3)]
slaves ("][/url]

History

The majority of the Africans who were brought as [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery) to Haiti were from the Guinea Coast of West Africa, and their descendants are the primary practitioners of Vodou (those Africans brought to the southern US were primarily from the Kongo kingdom). The survival of the belief system in the New World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World) is remarkable, although the traditions have changed with time. One of the largest differences however between African and Haitian Vodou is that the transplanted Africans of Haiti were obliged to disguise their lwa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loa) (sometimes spelled loa) or spirits as Roman Catholic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic) saints (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint), a process called syncretism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism).

Most experts speculate that this was done in an attempt to hide their "pagan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism)" religion from their masters who had forbidden them to practice it. To say that Haitian Vodou is simply a mix of West African religions with a veneer of Roman Catholicism would not be entirely correct. This would be ignoring numerous influences from the native TaÃ*no (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%EDno) Indians, as well as the evolutionary process that Vodou has undergone shaped by the volatile ferment of Haitian history. It would also be ignoring the large influence of European (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European) paganism in Roman Catholicism and its pantheon of saints.

Vodou as we know it in Haiti and the Haitian diaspora today is the result of the pressures of many different cultures and ethnicities of people being uprooted from Africa and imported to Hispanola during the African slave trade. Under slavery, African culture and religion was suppressed, lineages were fragmented, and people pooled their religious knowledge and out of this fragmentation became culturally unified. In addition to combining the spirits of many different African and Indian nations, pieces of Roman Catholic liturgy have been incorporated to replace lost prayers or elements; in addition images of Catholic saints are used to represent various spirits or "mistè" ("mysteries", actually the preferred term in Haiti), and many saints themselves are honored in Vodou in their own right. This syncretism allows Vodou to encompass the African, the Indian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American), and the European ancestors in a whole and complete way. It is truly a "Kreyòl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole)" religion.

The most historically important Vodou ceremony in Haitian history was the Bwa Kayiman or Bois Caïman (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bois_Ca%EFman&action=edit) ceremony of August (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August) 1791 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1791) that began the Haitian Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Revolution), in which the spirit Ezili Dantor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezili_Dantor) possessed a priestess and received a black pig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole_Pig) as an offering, and all those present pledged themselves to the fight for freedom. This ceremony ultimately resulted in the liberation of the Haitian people from their French (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) masters in 1804, and the establishment of the first black people's republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic) in the history of the world.

Haitian Vodou grew in the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) to a significant degree beginning in the late 1960s and early 1970s with the waves of Haitian immigrants fleeing the Duvalier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%E7ois_Duvalier) regime, taking root in Miami, New York City, Chicago, and other major cities.

[Haitiluv]

Beliefs

Haitian (http://Haitian) Vodouisants believe, in accordance with widespread African tradition, that there is one God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God) who is the creator of all, referred to as "Bondyè" (from the French "Bon Dieu" or "Good God", distinguished from the god of the whites in a dramatic speech by the houngan Boukman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boukman) at Bwa Kayiman, but is often considered the same God the Roman Catholic Church talks about). Bondyè is distant from his/her/its creation though, and so it is the spirits or the "mysteries", "saints", or "angels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel)" that the Vodouisant turns to for help, as well as to the ancestors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestor-worship). The Vodouisant worships God, and serves the spirits, who are treated with honor and respect as elder members of a household might be. There are said to be twenty-one nations or "nanchons" of spirits, also sometimes called "lwa-yo". Some of the more important nations of lwa are the Rada, the Nago, and the Kongo. The spirits also come in "families" that all share a surname, like Ogou (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogou), or Ezili (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erzulie), or Azaka (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Azaka&action=edit) or Ghede (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghede). For instance, "Ezili" is a family, Ezili Dantor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezili_Dantor) and Ezili Freda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezili_Freda) are two individual spirits in that family. The Ogou family are soldiers, the Ezili govern the feminine spheres of life, the Azaka govern agriculture, the Ghede govern the sphere of death and fertility. In Dominican Vodou, there is also an Agua Dulce or "Sweet Waters" family, which encompasses all Amerindian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American) spirits. There are literally hundreds of lwa. Well known individual lwa include Danbala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damballah) Wedo, Papa Legba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legba) Atibon, and Agwe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agwe) Tawoyo.

In Haitian Vodou, spirits are divided according to their nature in roughly two categories, whether they are hot or cool. Cool spirits fall under the Rada category, and hot spirits fall under the Petwo category. Rada spirits are familial and mostly come from Africa, Petwo spirits are mostly native to Haiti and are more demanding and require more attention to detail than the Rada, but both can be dangerous if angry or upset. Neither is "good" or "evil" in relation to the other.

Everyone is said to have spirits, and each person is considered to have a special relationship with one particular spirit who is said to "own their head", however each person may have many lwa, and the one that owns their head, or the "met tet", may or may not be the most active spirit in a person's life in Haitian belief.

In serving the spirits, the Vodouisant seeks to achieve harmony with their own individual nature and the world around them, manifested as personal power and resourcefulness in dealing with life. Part of this harmony is membership in and maintaining relationships within the context of family and community. A Vodou house or society is organized on the metaphor of an extended family, and initiates are the "children" of their initiators, with the sense of hierarchy and mutual obligation that implies.

Most Vodouisants are not initiated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiation), referred to as being "bosal"; it is not a requirement to be an initiate in order to serve one's spirits. There are clergy in Haitian Vodou whose responsibility it is to preserve the rituals and songs and maintain the relationship between the spirits and the community as a whole (though some of this is the responsibility of the whole community as well). They are entrusted with leading the service of all of the spirits of their lineage. Priests (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest) are referred to as "Houngans" and priestesses as "Manbos". Below the houngans and manbos are the hounsis, who are initiates who act as assistants during ceremonies and who are dedicated to their own personal mysteries. One doesn't serve just any lwa but only the ones they "have" according to one's destiny or nature. Which spirits a person "has" may be revealed at a ceremony, in a reading, or in dreams. However all Vodouisants also serve the spirits of their own blood ancestors, and this important aspect of Vodou practice is often glossed over or minimized in importance by commentators who do not understand the significance of it. The ancestor cult is in fact the basis of Vodou religion, and many lwa like Agasou (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Agasou&action=edit) (formerly a king of Dahomey) for example are in fact ancestors who are said to have been raised up to divinity.

[Haitiluv]

Values and Ethics

The cultural values that Vodou embraces center around ideas of honor and respect - to God, to the spirits, to the family and sosyete, and to oneself. There is a plural idea of proper and improper, in the sense that what is appropriate to someone with Dambala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damballah) Wedo as their head may be different from someone with Ogou Feray (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ogou_Feray&action=edit) as their head, for example.. one spirit is very cool and the other one is very hot. Coolness overall is valued, and so is the ability and inclination to protect oneself and one's own if necessary. Love and support within the family of the Vodou sosyete seems to be the most important consideration. Generosity in giving to the community and to the poor is also an important value. One's blessings come through the community and there is the idea that one should be willing to give back to it in turn. Since Vodou has such a community orientation, there are no "solitaries" in Vodou, only people separated geographically from their elders and house. In contrast to European-based Neopagan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopaganism) tradition, it is not a "do it yourself" religion - a person without a relationship of some kind with elders will not be practicing Vodou as it is understood in Haiti and among Haitians.

The Haitian Vodou religion is an ecstatic rather than a fertility based tradition and does not discriminate against gay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay) men and lesbian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian) women or other queer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer) people in any way. In fact there are hounfos or temples in Haiti whose clergy are entirely gay males or lesbians, etc. Unlike European-based Neopagan sects like Wicca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca), whose practitioners are often intensely curious about traditional religions like Haitian Vodou and which has a highly gender-based and heterosexually metaphoric ritual core, in Haitian Vodou the sexual orientation or gender identity and expression of a practitioner is of no concern in a ritual setting. It is seen as just the way God made a person. The spirits help each person to simply be the person that they are.

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Voodoo&action=edit&section=7)]
pope ("][/url]

Orthodoxy and Diversity

There is a diversity of practice in Vodou across the country of Haiti and the Haitian diaspora. For instance in the north of Haiti the sèvis tèt ("head washing") or kanzwe may be the only initiation, as it is in the Dominican Republic and Cuba, whereas in Port-au-Prince and the south they practice the kanzo rites with three grades of initiation – kanzo senp, si pwen, and asogwe – and the latter is the most familiar mode of practice outside of Haiti. Some lineages combine both, as Manbo Katherine Dunham reports from her personal experience in her book Island Possessed.

While the overall tendency in Vodou is very conservative in accord with its African roots, there is no singular, definitive form, only what is right in a particular house or lineage. Small details of service and the spirits served will vary from house to house, and information in books or on the internet therefore may seem contradictory. There is no central authority or "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope)" in Haitian Vodou since "every manbo and houngan is the head of their own house", as a popular saying in Haiti goes. Another consideration in terms of Haitian diversity are the many sects besides the Sèvi Gine in Haiti such as the Makaya, Rara, and other secret societies, each of which has its own distinct pantheon of spirits.

[Haitiluv]

Myths and Misconceptions

Public relations-wise, Vodou has come to be associated in the popular mind with such phenomena as "zombies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie)" and "voodoo dolls". While there is ethnobotanical evidence relating to "zombie" creation, it is a minor phenomenon within rural Haitian culture and not a part of the Vodou religion as such. Such things fall under the auspices of the "bokor" or sorcerer rather than the priest of the Lwa Gine.

The practice of sticking pins in "voodoo dolls" has been used as a method of cursing an individual by some followers of what has come to be called "New Orleans Voodoo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_Voodoo)", which is a local variant of hoodoo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoodoo). This practice is not unique to New Orleans "voodoo" however and has as much basis in European-based magical devices such as the "poppet" as the nkisi or bocio of West and Central Africa. In fact it has more basis in European traditions, as the nkisi or bocio figures used in Africa are in fact power objects, what in Haiti would be referred to as pwen, rather than magical surrogates for an intended target of sorcery whether for boon or for bane. Such "voodoo" dolls are not a feature of Haitian religion, although dolls intended for tourists may be found in the Iron Market in Port au Prince. The practice became closely associated with the Vodou religions in the public mind through the vehicle of horror movies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horror_movie).

There is a practice in Haiti of nailing crude poppets with a discarded shoe on trees near the cemetery to act as messengers to the otherworld, which is very different in function from how poppets are portrayed as being used by "voodoo worshippers" in popular media and imagination, ie. for purposes of sympathetic magic towards another person. Another use of dolls in authentic Vodou practice is the incorporation of plastic doll babies in altars and objects used to represent or honor the spirits, or in pwen, which recalls the aforementioned use of bocio and nkisi figures in Africa. One Haitian artist particularly known for his unusual sacred constructions using doll parts is Pierrot Barra of Port au Prince.

Afrikan Traditions

West African or Beninese Vodun is similar to Haitian Vodou in its emphasis on the ancestors, however each family of spirits has its own specialized clergy that is often hereditary. Spirits include Mami Wata (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mami_Wata&action=edit), who are goddesses of waters; Legba, who is virile and young in contrast to the old man form he takes in Haiti; Gu, ruling iron and smithcraft; Sakpata, who rules diseases; and many other spirits distinct in their own way to West Africa.

[TwentyFourSeven]

Are you trying to tell me that Haitian voodoo is not about zombies and evil looking people that work spells on you that make you fart though your mouth and piss through your ears??? :2eek:

Well a lot of this ignorance and misconception came from U.S soldiers who were stationed in Haiti back in the early 1900s (1915-1934). They brought back tall tales during a time when the U.S was still neck deep in racial strife so it was quite common for white soldiers to really lay it on real thick about perceived backwards and primitive black Haitains. Before you knew it, cartoons and movies on television were spicing up their material with stories of zombies based on details brought back by these soldiers.

[Haitiluv]

Are you trying to tell me that Haitian voodoo is not about zombies and evil looking people that work spells on you that make you fart though your mouth and piss through your ears??? :2eek:

DEAD!!!!! :lol_rolli
Sorry to bust your bubble sir.

Well a lot of this ignorance and misconception came from U.S soldiers who were stationed in Haiti back in the early 1900s (1915-1934). They brought back tall tales during a time when the U.S was still neck deep in racial strife so it was quite common for white soldiers to really lay it on real thick about perceived backwards and primitive black Haitains. Before you knew it, cartoons and movies on television were spicing up their material with stories of zombies based on details brought back by these soldiers.
Only made worse by Western and especially American media. Case in point "Serpent and the Rainbow." :shame:

[Brownilus]

Nice job, Haitiluv...I have heard of Papa Legba (well, read of him)...

but...one thing i notice...they are emphasizing how it is a mix due to haiti's location and influence...so why are people often speaking as if it's one of the few "truly african" things passed down through the centuries to today? Isn't a it a mutt of whatever came to the island, like patois is a mutt of the languages that came to Jamaica?

I am learning plenty though...it's interesting that they can trace some words back to specific tribes...

[Brownilus]

I have never heard of this Serpent and the Rainbow thing you keep mentioning...explain?Only made worse by Western and especially American media. Case in point "Serpent and the Rainbow." :shame:

[Haitiluv]

Nice job, Haitiluv...I have heard of Papa Legba (well, read of him)...

but...one thing i notice...they are emphasizing how it is a mix due to haiti's location and influence...so why are people often speaking as if it's one of the few "truly african" things passed down through the centuries to today? Isn't a it a mutt of whatever came to the island, like patois is a mutt of the languages that came to Jamaica?

Hmm, I don't see that. Haitian vodou's strongest influence is from the African tradition with the smaller influences being from other sources.

I am learning plenty though...it's interesting that they can trace some words back to specific tribes...

[Brownilus]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Brownilus
Nice job, Haitiluv...I have heard of Papa Legba (well, read of him)...

but...one thing i notice...they are emphasizing how it is a mix due to haiti's location and influence...so why are people often speaking as if it's one of the few "truly african" things passed down through the centuries to today? Isn't a it a mutt of whatever came to the island, like patois is a mutt of the languages that came to Jamaica?

Hmm, I don't see that. Haitian vodou's strongest influence is from the African tradition with the smaller influences being from other sources.

I am learning plenty though...it's interesting that they can trace some words back to specific tribes...
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Oh ok...cause I had never heard of indian influences before reading these articles...

[dimps]

:2eek: wow!

[Haitiluv]

I have never heard of this Serpent and the Rainbow thing you keep mentioning...explain?
My bad. Movie released back in the 80s about an American anthropologist who traveled to Haiti in the hopes of trying to find out if there was really such a thing as a "zombie potion" and bring it back to the states. They pretty much took the whole zombie thing and took it to a whole new level. I can't help but shake my head thinking about it. The film is based on a book that's based on a true story but you know how Hollywood has to take things to the extreme. There's even talk that the real guy its based on was totally against the film and how it portrayed haitian ppl and culture. Some of the actors and others involved in the production felt about the same.

[Brownilus]

oh ouch. i know i get tired of them making jamaicans look like a bunch a violent weedsmookers...esp. that thing about everybody smokes...but i heard the violent rep really spread out after the Jamaican Posse blaze tru here...cops, immigration, everybody...never saw us the same after them cause our badman nuh hesitate fi shoot police...up here they at least try to run first...

[Zinyia]

Good thread Haitiluv, I know a lot more about the religion now.

We have something in Trinidad called Spiritual Baptists or Shouter Baptists and I think that is the closest religion to African culture for us. There does seem to be some similarity between the ones I mentioned and vodou, but there's a lot more christianity mixed in with the Baptists I think.

[TwentyFourSeven]

Pocomania anyone?

[Brownilus]

sarcasm doesn't suit you, oh slick tongue one. :coolPocomania anyone?

[TwentyFourSeven]

sarcasm doesn't suit you, oh slick tongue one. :cool

What sarcasm? I was simply asking if anyone wanted to discuss a religion that is similar to voudon in terms of roots that trace back to Africa.

[Brownilus]

why not start a thread on it like usual instead of moving the spotlight from where haiti has it on voodoo? keep dat tongue well grease up baby love.

:walk:

What sarcasm? I was simply asking if anyone wanted to discuss a religion that is similar to voudon in terms of roots that trace back to Africa.

[TwentyFourSeven]

why not start a thread on it like usual instead of moving the spotlight from where haiti has it on voodoo? keep dat tongue well grease up baby love.

:walk:

Sure, but I take it it will garner little interest. The idea sprung in my mind when STF mentioned similar practices in Trinidad.

[Zinyia]

^ Is this some sort of dirty sexual act going on between you two? I don't know whether to part you guys or excuse myself from the room :laugh:

[TwentyFourSeven]

^ Is this some sort of dirty sexual act going on between you two? I don't know whether to part you guys or excuse myself from the room :laugh:

I'm having sex with Brownilus and don't know it? Holy shiligit :2eek: Better break out with the heavy duty Viagra then.

[Brownilus]

i want to answer this but stf have me alternately choking in shock and DEADing wid laugh...Sure, but I take it it will garner little interest. The idea sprung in my mind when STF mentioned similar practices in Trinidad.

[Brownilus]

I'm having sex with Brownilus and don't know it? Holy shiligit :2eek: Better break out with the heavy duty Viagra then.
:shame:

:lol_rolli :lol_rolli :lol_rolli

[Brownilus]

ok i have recovered enough to actually answer.

little interest is better than b.s. interest, long as interest is there. (c)2005 UrbanGal. I try to remind myself of her philosophy but mi deh pan a points ting stilllll...

i don't know much about it cause it's (again) one a dem tings we shoo the kids away from like you shoo fly from good food...

and this week seems to be the window of opportunity to talk about these things, cause after this might be a nex CP drought. so if yuh tongue truly neva wet up wid slickitivity...just go ahead and do it...
Sure, but I take it it will garner little interest. The idea sprung in my mind when STF mentioned similar practices in Trinidad.

[TwentyFourSeven]

ok i have recovered enough to actually answer.

little interest is better than b.s. interest, long as interest is there. (c)2005 UrbanGal. I try to remind myself of her philosophy but mi deh pan a points ting stilllll...

i don't know much about it cause it's (again) one a dem tings we shoo the kids away from like you shoo fly from good food...

and this week seems to be the window of opportunity to talk about these things, cause after this might be a nex CP drought. so if yuh tongue truly neva wet up wid slickitivity...just go ahead and do it...

Yuh luv tawk bout mi tongue, eeh? Hmm... :devil

[Brownilus]

yes i do. it's like a double edge sword. it's very fascinating, your ability with words.

and i haven't even glimpsed the blasted ting yet.

weh yuh a get devilish fa now?
Yuh luv tawk bout mi tongue, eeh? Hmm... :devil

[TwentyFourSeven]

yes i do. it's like a double edge sword. it's very fascinating, your ability with words.

and i haven't even glimpsed the blasted ting yet.

weh yuh a get devilish fa now?

It's midnight. The devil walk bout de place dem hours deh. ;)

[Brownilus]

i thought 11 o'clock was the witching hour?

you di devil himself yes..

can we NOT talk about devil and walking bout a night in a voodoo thread! cho!

It's midnight. The devil walk bout de place dem hours deh. ;)

[WADADLI GAL]

so the real question is.............................can u tun smaddy head backwards??

do u really see dem miste` or wah ever u call dem.

are sum of the stuff that is broadcasted to the world true???

wah bout di wringing of chicken necks an stuff?

blood sacrifices and all dat??

[WADADLI GAL]

if not voodoo den wah bout obeah?????

[Brownilus]

so the real question is.............................can u tun smaddy head backwards??

do u really see dem miste` or wah ever u call dem.

are sum of the stuff that is broadcasted to the world true???

wah bout di wringing of chicken necks an stuff?

blood sacrifices and all dat??
***dies***

Like every question up to now is appetizer, dis a di main course! :D

(ignore me, i need to go my bed, an i know cause nuff starting to look hilarious dis time a night...)

[Brownilus]

i don't think they have "obeah" in haiti, and as for my land i wasn't allowed to get close enough to info about it to know which parts of it true and which false. And never had time (or let's be honest, inclination) to ponder it in my adult life...

what do they call it in antigua?
if not voodoo den wah bout obeah?????

[doncalypso]

Since we're on the subject of zombies and voodoo I might as well state my two cents on the whole zombie thing.

Zombies do exist. However, a true zombie is not what one sees in the stereotypical portrayals of the US media---zombies are not living dead. Zombies are individuals who have been poisoned and passed off as dead in order to be sold into slavery in the service of a Hougan.

Basically, a poison is placed in an individual's food and it slows down their breathing and heart rate to a point where it is undetectable by modern medicine. Incidentally, one of the main ingredients of the concoction to zombify people is the poison from pufferfish.
After having been poisoned, the poor victim is declared dead and is then buried. Some time after the funeral the Hougan (black magic priest responsible for their poisoning) and his accomplices break the tomb and take the zombie away into slavery. Now what happens is that sometimes a Hougan might die so all the slaves under his control escape and find their way back to their families after having been presumed dead for years.
What sometimes happens to people who are zombified is that they run out of air in their coffin when they get buried, so by the time the Hougan comes to break them out of the grave and take them into slavery their brain may have suffered damage induced by anoxia. This, in turn, is the source of the stereotypica image of zombies walking with a stiff mechanical gait and having this weird look on their face---after all, people who've suffered a stroke often have a stiff/mechanical nature to their look and gait if they've suffered extensive brain damage.
Another incident that has been known to happen is that the dosage of the poison isn't enough so the victim might awaken while in the grave. Worst yet, I've heard rumors of cases where the poison wore out during the victim's funeral service.... you can imagine what kind of panic this would cause.


The whole American fascination with zombies comes from the fact that NASA would like to get its hands on the exact formula for inducing this state of near suspended animation. The benefits of perfecting the zombification process would be immesurable for the US.
First of all, the zombification procedure would benefit medical science in the area of surgery because the quasi absence of a heartbeat would reduce blood flow and thus reduce the risk of excessive blood loss.
Second, the zombification process would benefit space travel if we were to send crews to Mars because while under suspended animation astronauts would consume much less oxygen than if they were awake. And if you have a crew in suspended animation for an extended period of time, not only do they consume less oxygen, but you have to pack less food and water as well and would make room for more fuel or valuable payload.

Unfortunately, I have no websites or journal articles to refer you guys to... It's all info gathered from hearsay and stuff I've seen in documentaries on TV back home so take everything I say with a few grains of salt. Speaking of which, it is said Hougans make sure to remove salt from the zombies' diet because it can counter the effect of the poison.

[Zinyia]

:2eek:

[tlapartna]

i don't think they have "obeah" in haiti, and as for my land i wasn't allowed to get close enough to info about it to know which parts of it true and which false. And never had time (or let's be honest, inclination) to ponder it in my adult life...

what do they call it in antigua?

Just to let it be known, Dominican Republic, USVI, BVI, St.Kitts/Nevis, Anguilla, Antigua(for sure), Dominica...I mean truss me they all have Obeah...truss me.

[WADADLI GAL]

browni we call it obeah

[Brownilus]

ahhh, the continued problem when oral tradition bucks the western need to document everything in a paper trail...people need sources and proof and so forth. :D

Your explanation is as shocking as it is clarifying. Thanks...

why does hougan sound so close to hooligan. lol. thanks this was excellent info.
Since we're on the subject of zombies and voodoo I might as well state my two cents on the whole zombie thing.

Zombies do exist. However, a true zombie is not what one sees in the stereotypical portrayals of the US media---zombies are not living dead. Zombies are individuals who have been poisoned and passed off as dead in order to be sold into slavery in the service of a Hougan.

Basically, a poison is placed in an individual's food and it slows down their breathing and heart rate to a point where it is undetectable by modern medicine. Incidentally, one of the main ingredients of the concoction to zombify people is the poison from pufferfish.
After having been poisoned, the poor victim is declared dead and is then buried. Some time after the funeral the Hougan (black magic priest responsible for their poisoning) and his accomplices break the tomb and take the zombie away into slavery. Now what happens is that sometimes a Hougan might die so all the slaves under his control escape and find their way back to their families after having been presumed dead for years.
What sometimes happens to people who are zombified is that they run out of air in their coffin when they get buried, so by the time the Hougan comes to break them out of the grave and take them into slavery their brain may have suffered damage induced by anoxia. This, in turn, is the source of the stereotypica image of zombies walking with a stiff mechanical gait and having this weird look on their face---after all, people who've suffered a stroke often have a stiff/mechanical nature to their look and gait if they've suffered extensive brain damage.
Another incident that has been known to happen is that the dosage of the poison isn't enough so the victim might awaken while in the grave. Worst yet, I've heard rumors of cases where the poison wore out during the victim's funeral service.... you can imagine what kind of panic this would cause.


The whole American fascination with zombies comes from the fact that NASA would like to get its hands on the exact formula for inducing this state of near suspended animation. The benefits of perfecting the zombification process would be immesurable for the US.
First of all, the zombification procedure would benefit medical science in the area of surgery because the quasi absence of a heartbeat would reduce blood flow and thus reduce the risk of excessive blood loss.
Second, the zombification process would benefit space travel if we were to send crews to Mars because while under suspended animation astronauts would consume much less oxygen than if they were awake. And if you have a crew in suspended animation for an extended period of time, not only do they consume less oxygen, but you have to pack less food and water as well and would make room for more fuel or valuable payload.

Unfortunately, I have no websites or journal articles to refer you guys to... It's all info gathered from hearsay and stuff I've seen in documentaries on TV back home so take everything I say with a few grains of salt. Speaking of which, it is said Hougans make sure to remove salt from the zombies' diet because it can counter the effect of the poison.

[Brownilus]

i put it in quotes to show they (haiti) probly have some other name. lawd.Just to let it be known, Dominican Republic, USVI, BVI, St.Kitts/Nevis, Anguilla, Antigua(for sure), Dominica...I mean truss me they all have Obeah...truss me.

[Brownilus]

thanks.

browni we call it obeah

[tlapartna]

browni we call it obeah

Last Carnival
We get plenty Bacanal
Dey bring a man from Haiti(please excuse but that is the lyric of the song)
To wuk Obeah pon me
Mi went back Antigua
To wake up my Granmuddah
An we work togedah
To get rid a di Obeah

Oma-lama-shuma-lama
Huhhhhhhhhhhh
Oma-lama-shuma-lama
Huhhhhhhhhhh
Oma-lama-shuma-lama
Huhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
We reversing di Obeah

-Obeah, JamBand [Showtime Album]

[WADADLI GAL]

:laugh:

[TwentyFourSeven]

DonC that was an excellent bit of information you provided and yes, Brownilus, we call it obeah which is just an alternate name for voudon or voodoo, but where we come from, the focus is often more on spells/hexes placed on people.

[Brownilus]

so some things saying voodoo and obeah different, some people saying they the same thing with different name...:headscrat

that zombie thing needed to be put out there cause it seems the whole scare around the dead is the biggest thing...and zombies seem to be the STAPLE in any horror movie/game...

i don't think jamaicans shun obeah because they don't believe any such thing exists...cause you know how they say these things only affect you if you believe in them? i think it's believing in it that make us shun it...the power of it...cause in america i notice they laugh off the whole thing as backabush nonsense...nobody in jamaica laughs off talk of obeah...(might use it in joke...somebody obeah yuh for a person that seems to have a string a bad luck, or for a man that seems just hypnotized by a girl that he has no business being interested in)...so if they can't laugh...then hey...

and you know people on here done accuse me of obeah already...lol...cause i can "read" pictures and words...and back then i joked and said maybe the maroon blood in me run stronger than i thought (i was saying it's not obeah, its the purer strain of blood who kept closer to african practices and were more in touch with the spirit world)...i wasn't even consciously thinking about maroons and obeah when i typed that, so i wonder now that it's in my conscious mind what made me say it like that?

hmmm....

DonC that was an excellent bit of information you provided and yes, Brownilus, we call it obeah which is just an alternate name for voudon or voodoo, but where we come from, the focus is often more on spells/hexes placed on people.

[Nika_869]

DonC that was an excellent bit of information you provided and yes, Brownilus, we call it obeah which is just an alternate name for voudon or voodoo, but where we come from, the focus is often more on spells/hexes placed on people.


Come darling. u h uh. Obeah is from an entirely different tribe. Also it involves more of the herbs and medicines. No Zombies as DonC spoke of. No dolls to try and maim a soul. Simply herbs mixed up with a chant, placed in drinks, foods and sometimes skin. Spells cast to remove or inflict evil etc. They normally use the Psalm 23 to remove spells. They are reversible in some ways as well.They are similar but Obeah is different.

[TwentyFourSeven]

Come darling. u h uh. Obeah is from an entirely different tribe. Also it involves more of the herbs and medicines. No Zombies as DonC spoke of. No dolls to try and maim a soul. Simply herbs mixed up with a chant, placed in drinks, foods and sometimes skin. Spells cast to remove or inflict evil etc. They normally use the Psalm 23 to remove spells. They are reversible in some ways as well.They are similar but Obeah is different.

That is what I am talking about. Aspects of voodoo can be found in obeah practices and vice versa. When we say, "dah man wuk voodoo pon she" we are refering to obeah if only the aspect that deals with spells and hexes.

[Nika_869]

That is what I am talking about. Aspects of voodoo can be found in obeah practices and vice versa. When we say, "dah man wuk voodoo pon she" we are refering to obeah if only the aspect that deals with spells and hexes.

WHich reminds me. it has been a while since I have practised some stuff. Want to be my subject. I was trying to moomoo someone the other day but I forgot how to do it. Mind if I use u? :nah:









:laugh:

[TwentyFourSeven]

WHich reminds me. it has been a while since I have practised some stuff. Want to be my subject. I was trying to moomoo someone the other day but I forgot how to do it. Mind if I use u? :nah:









:laugh:

Moomoo me? No need to. I already have no sense. Sex slave? Well that would be welcomed so come bring de potion and put it on me. :D

[Brownilus]

Moomoo me? No need to. I already have no sense. Sex slave? Well that would be welcomed so come bring de potion and put it on me. :D
A. your tongue suppose to slick enough that a woman needs no extra body oils. :D

B. FINALLY somebody explain di dyam ting fi mi! (@ bold)

:walk:

[TwentyFourSeven]

A. your tongue suppose to slick enough that a woman needs no extra body oils. :D

B. FINALLY somebody explain di dyam ting fi mi! (@ bold)

:walk:

Yes, one of our hold over words from the motherland. Incidentally I was shocked when I heard a guy from the barrier islands off South Carolina (where escaped slaves hid and retained a good deal of their African culture) used the very same word and int he very same context. He has never been to the Caribbean yet he used the word "moomoo" to refer to someone who is stupid or lacking of common sense. Amazing, isn't it?

Another one of of hold over words would be bamankoo which is what Jamaicans call boasin'.

[Haitiluv]

Sorry for my absence kids, been busy last couple of days. thanks for adding the zombie thing DonC.

DonC that was an excellent bit of information you provided and yes, Brownilus, we call it obeah which is just an alternate name for voudon or voodoo, but where we come from, the focus is often more on spells/hexes placed on people.
AGAIN, the main focus of Haitian vodou IS the same. Ppl just want to focus more on the zombie aspect then anything else. That's the problem. I REPEAT: ZOMBIES ARE NOT THE MAIN ASPECT OF HAITIAN VODOU! I was hoping this thread would enlighten ppl otherwise but judging by a couple of the last few comments I'm starting to think my efforts were in vain.

[TwentyFourSeven]

Sorry for my absence kids, been busy last couple of days. thanks for adding the zombie thing DonC.


AGAIN, the main focus of Haitian vodou IS the same. Ppl just want to focus more on the zombie aspect then anything else. That's the problem. I REPEAT: ZOMBIES ARE NOT THE MAIN ASPECT OF HAITIAN VODOU! I was hoping this thread would enlighten ppl otherwise but judging by a couple of the last few comments I'm starting to think my efforts were in vain.

Since you highlighted a part of my post, let me clarify (and this explains why I sometimes type long posts to avoid such misunderstanding). I made it VERY clear earlier in this thread where the ignorance, inpart, came from which clearly indicates I am not ignorant of the nonsense. My response to Brownilus was based on the seemingly prevalent understanding of some people in that, they believe voudon is all about zombies and evil people who worship the devil. I then explained to her that where I come from people dabble with obeah, but when we think of obeah, we often ONLY think about someone who works with potions that can either bring you good fortune or bad fortune and that's about it.

[Haitiluv]

^ My post wasn't just to in regards to your post, yours just happenned to be the one I landed on to quote.

Point clarified. :thumbsup2